Do you have a girlfriend? Go and tell her that she can only give you blowjobs until she's ready to have a kid and only then are you allowed to have sex. Of course once she's pregnant it's back to blowjobs. Please, just go and tell your girlfriend that... see what her reaction is.

How the hell can you call someone who gets pregnant automatically a slut? And why exactly is it *only* the woman's fault if she gets pregnant?

And as we all know contraceptives are not 100% fool proof so what would happen to the girl in your example if she still DID get pregnant. Also I think you'll find that generally it isn't the woman who doesn't want to use contraception (especially condoms) - it's the man. But of course it could never be our fault because we're perfect and women are not. Right?

The less you have sex the less chance the person you're sleeping with will get pregnant. So I guess following your own philosophy you'll never have sex except at times when you absolutely want to have a child. Or not because you think women are the source of all this evil and it's not actually men's fault that they get pregnant?

Fair? Well I don't think I'd care much either way as I'm not even born yet.

If a being that is alive and has no functioning consciousness is killed and you call that murder, then every time we kill an animal to eat it, every time we pick a flower to give it to a girlfriend - every time we swat a fly that is annoying us... all those times we are murdering something. Tell me then.. how many beings have you murdered in your life?

rare but not impossible... so what happens when someone is raped and DOES become pregnant?

Are you saying that aborting kids that will be born sick and retarded is "OK"? If so then you are a big hypocrite and if not - well explain what you meant then. Why would a child that may be born with mental problems be treated any different to one that lives normally? Do you know that many of the world's greatest geniuses are/were disabled in one way or another?

Monogamy is unnatural. Should all people HAVE to be promicuous?
Homosexuality has been seen in nearly all mammals and is very prominant amongst primates, therefore it's pretty natural.

The verse in the bible denouncing homosexuality is highly contested. The story of Sodom and Gemorrah could be seen as a desire for homosexual acts or it could be seen as wanting to rape someone. The Romans were destroyed more for denouncing god than for having butt sex. Also the Bible says some radical things. Things like insolent children can be stoned, your daughter can be sold into slavery, touching a football makes you unclean, working on the sabbath makes you eligible for another stoning, etc.

And, just like it was said earlier you agree with killing a human (albeit an undeveloped, unconscience human) but you don't think that two peple should get the same rights as everyone else just because they are the same sex. Interesting.

The trouble is I don't think people actually plan on this happening so they don't necessarily think "Should I think about the possibilities of getting pregnant and the possibility that I might have to go and see a back alley abortionist" before they get pregnant. It's usually a case of them finding out they're pregnant and then trying to figure out how they got pregnant in the first place.

Sex education etc does help a lot, making people aware of the risks but I honestly don't think that people who want abortions actually intended to get pregnant. You can't force them to keep their child, or even worse - give it to someone else, just because they made a mistake... and you can't even be sure if it was a mistake or just an accident (like a condom breaking).

By forcing a mother to go through with the birth you force her into a position where she has to chose whether to keep the child and try and bring it up in an environment that is not suited for it (usually the mother is a minor, still going to school - not ideal for a growing child), or to give it away - which is bound to leave heavy psychological scars in the mother (I can't imagine it would be easy to give up your own child because you know you wouldn't be able to take care of it) and possibly the child too if/when they find out the truth.

No one should ever have to chose that. You may think that abortion is a choice which is just as bad and you're right, it is... but at least in this case the mother can continue with her life and the child - well, he will never have known life. You can also bet your life that the mother will not get pregnant again any time soon.

Yes it's a sad and a terrible thing, but it is better than the alternative.

Yeah I was baiting you as you seemed rather hyped up calling women "sluts" etc. But you've explained why you said that and that's fine with me

Then fuck off and post somewhere else! These are real issues that need dealing with now.

Seconded.

Old Testament Admonitions.
The Old Testament presents long lists of forbidden activities, some of which most of us do regularly (shaving, getting a haircut, wearing clothing woven of two kinds of material, eating rare meat). These books also present a series of acceptable or even required practices that we wouldn't dream of doing (animal sacrifices, keeping slaves, stoning people to death for infractions such as cursing their parents).
Please understand that, in this examination, I in no way intend to ridicule, question, or even minimize any of the wisdom to be found in the Bible. I simply mean to show that no one follows all the teachings of the Bible. Certainly not a single fundamentalist Christian—not one. Even the most devout Jew has abandoned burnt offerings, keeping slaves, stoning, and a great many other activities which are permitted or required by the biblical Laws of Moses.
The first seventeen chapters of the book of Leviticus, for example, go into great detail as to which animals are to be sacrificed for what sins or celebrations, which skin irritations are diseases and which are sins, and which animals cannot be eaten—or even touched. These animals include rabbit, lizard, pig, shrimp, lobster, clam, scallop, eel, octopus, or squid. You may, however, eat "any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper" (Leviticus 11:22–23).
Chapter 18 of Leviticus contains sexual activities that are not acceptable. It's a long list; here's the Reader's Digest version: don't have sex with your stepmother, stepsister, "the daughter of your father's wife," your aunt, "a woman and her daughter," a woman and "her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter"; with any woman while she's having her period; with your neighbor's wife. As verse 29 explains, "Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people" (18:29).
Chapter 19 is a grab bag of laws:
Verse 19: "Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your fields with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material."
Verse 27: "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."
Verse 28: "Do not . . . put tattoo marks on yourselves."
Verse 32: "Rise in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly. . . ."
Similarly, chapter 20 offers a variety of sins and punishments. Among them:
Verse 6: "I will set my face against the person who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute himself by following them, and I will cut him off from his people."
Verse 9: "If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or mother, and his blood will be on his own head."
Verse 10: "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
Verse 11: "If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
Verse 13 (Falwell's Favorite): "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
Verse 14: "If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you."
Verse 15: "If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal." [*FN]

Verse 16: "If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
Verse 27: "A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads."
In Chapter 24 someone has "blasphemed the Name with a curse" (24:11).

Chapter 25 introduces the Year of Jubilee. Every seven years—Leviticus instructs—the land is to go fallow. Whatever grows there is to be harvested by the poor. This is the Sabbath for the land. Every seventh Sabbath for the land—seven times seven years—becomes the Year of Jubilee. In the Year of Jubilee, all slaves purchased are to be set free, all houses purchased (except houses within walled cities) are to return to their original owner ("Quick! There's only three months until the Year of Jubilee. Let's build a wall."), and all land sold is to return to its original holder. Nothing, it seems, is sold permanently; it is sold only until the Year of Jubilee; all contracts are good for a maximum of forty-nine years.
In Chapter 27, the last chapter of Leviticus, the price is set for slaves of various ages. A male between the ages of twenty and sixty is worth fifty shekels, and a female between twenty and sixty is worth thirty shekels. "If it is a person between the ages of five and twenty, set the value of a male at twenty shekels and of a female at ten shekels. If it is a person between one month and five years, set the value of a male at five shekels of silver and that of a female at three shekels of silver (27:5–6).

Laws from Exodus

If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. (21:7–8)

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. (21:20–21)

If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins. (22:16–17)

Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the Lord must be destroyed. (22:20)

If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest. (22:25)

You must give me the firstborn of your sons. (22:29)

Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. (31:15)

Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day. (35:3)

Laws from Numbers

While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. Then the Lord said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses. (15:32–36)

So Moses said to Israel's judges, "Each of you must put to death those of your men who have joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor." (25:5)

Laws from Deuteronomy

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" . . . do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the Lord your God. . . . (13:6, 8–10)

Do not eat anything you find already dead. You may give it to an alien living in any of your towns, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner. (14:21)

There should be no poor among you. (15:4)

You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. (15:6)



The man who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the Lord your God must be put to death. (17:12)

Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. (19:21)

A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this. (22:5)

Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together. (22:10)

If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death. (22:23–24)

You must not bring the earnings of a female prostitute or of a male prostitute into the house of the Lord your God to pay any vow, because the Lord your God detests them both. (23:18)

If you enter your neighbor's vineyard, you may eat all the grapes you want, but do not put any in your basket. (23:24)

If you enter your neighbor's grainfield, you may pick kernels with your hands, but you must not put a sickle to his standing grain. (23:25)

If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her. (25:5)

If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity. (25:11–12)

Those were just some of the laws from four of the thirty-nine books of the Old Testament. A few obvious observations:

1. Aren't you glad the police aren't out enforcing more of these laws than they already are?

2. The laws of the Bible (the ones we've just reviewed are more than 3,500 years old) make a poor basis for the laws of the United States today.

3. The religious right has decided to disregard most of the Old Testament laws as no longer applicable. Yet these same people cling to a select few Old Testament restrictions as a basis for judging other people's morality and criminality.

4. What justification is there for almost everyone to ignore one biblical law and make another biblical law the basis for imprisonment, persecution, and discrimination?

5. The next time a televangelist (or senator) quotes Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, or any other Old Testament book of the Bible as a justification for locking people up, remember the context from which their interpretation of "God's law" comes.

...and you can too

you do know that nothing you say in here is of any intellectual value whatsoever, and is very crude and immature. and by the way..... no one CHOOSES to be gay, they are BORN that way. 13 years of religion classes has engraved that into my brain. it is in thier chemical makeup and God MADE them that way. you're a very sad person